Wednesday, February 08, 2017

Trump Joins the American Government "Killers" He Censured?

You throw mud, you lose ground. President Trump's own "apology tour" is having unintended consequences.


In the first place, someone who doesn't understand the difference between U.S. wars in which we don't "invade" other countries to take them over like Putin's invasions (Georgia, Ukraine) has no understanding of basic morality.

Second, someone who doesn't understand the difference between willful policy to kill and a "mistake" in policy does not have adult intelligence.

So, according to President Trump the U.S. and its leaders are just as bad as Putin and other leaders (ISIS?) who murder people who oppose them because of the fatalities in the U.S. war in Iraq (which Trump opposed). Who was the main American leader in the Iraq War?  President George W. Bush.

As absurd as President Obama's claims of American failures were, he never implied George W. Bush was a "killer". The far left did, but Obama didn't. Now Trump has clearly joined the far left critique. Code Pink should be ecstatic.

Where are the conservatives who are outraged? There are only a few. Most have stomped on their principles because Trump isn't Hillary. Pathetic.

Well, let's take the Trump critique and apply it to Trump too.

Trump's first ordered military raid resulted in civilians and children killed and a Navy Seal Chief Petty Officer William Owens as well as three U.S. commandos wounded. So, does that make Trump a "killer" like Putin and ISIS, or to reach back into history a bit, Hitler and Stalin?

No. At least not for anyone who understands that purposeful killing is different than killing by "mistake".

But, there still are policy consequences. Because of Trump's military mistake, Yemen has now "withdrawn permission for the United States to run Special Operations ground missions against suspected terrorist groups in [Yemen]".  So, expect more people to be "killed" as terrorist groups have more freedom to recruit, train and attack because of this "mistake".

It seems President Trump has now joined his own list of American government "killers".


MAX Redline said...

I found it amusing when Pelosi went on "Meet the Press" last Sunday and said she couldn't support President Bush's agenda and would fight it all the way.

No media had much to say.

T. D. said...

Well, that's the media for you. They ignore Dem "mistakes". However, what Trump said was not a mistake. O'Reilly pushed him on it, and Trump doubled down.

MAX Redline said...

Oh, I understand that. But I also understand that while we don't tend to "invade and hold", we do kill a heck of a lot of civilians while we fight "civilized wars". The recently departed Drone Ranger killed hundreds of them, in multiple countries. Apparently, that's not a problem.

Ferret-top just stated the obvious: there are a lot of killers out there, and we aren't exactly clean ourselves. Yes, the Yemen attack may have been poorly considered - but at least he didn't blame the result on a Youtube video.

T. D. said...

Max, to hold that we are killers just like the worst is in one sense right. In God's eyes all men are sinners.

But, that path leads to moral insanity when applied by humans to other humans. Just as I cheer when ISIS operatives are blown up, I would need to cheer if Donald Trump or policemen are assassinated. Because, after all, they are just as much a killer as ISIS. Innocent people are killed by all of them. No difference.

But there is a huge difference. There are real rogue policemen. There are real moral monsters. ISIS is among them. Putin is too. Kim Jong-Un is another. Trump is wrong, but he isn't a killer like they are, even though he would have me believe that people like him are equally as bad. I refuse to accept that.

There are really reprehensible people, and they are NOT people who just make mistakes. It's the difference between 1st degree murder and involuntary manslaughter.

MAX Redline said...

I tend to agree with your view, TD. People are evil. And I think that's what Ferret-top was noting. Few, if any countries in the world are blood-free. Obama ordered hundreds of drone-strikes, killing thousands of people over eight years. And he has a Nobel Peace Prize.

I find that reprehensible. But nobody talks about that.

T. D. said...

Max, the strange thing is that Trump doesn't find anything wrong with Obama's drone strikes ( torture. So, his critique is not about means or the killing of innocents. That's why he has never criticized Obama's drone strikes.

His critique is not about means or innocent people killed, but about whether he is for or against the war itself. He's not against Obama's wars. Trump thinks that they should have been prosecuted with more force not less. He is only against Bush's war but not how it was accomplished. He thinks it was stupid and destabilizing. That's why Bush, and only Bush, is alluded to as being a "killer".

And, besides Bush being a killer, I basically agree with him. If you go to war, your first duty is to win it. You use everything you've got. Though you don't target civilians, you do target the enemy's resources. With a few exceptions, I agree with everything done in World War II including dropping the two atomic bombs. The goal of war is to stop the enemy's killing and use of force and to do it as quickly and effectively as possible.

So, I'm not against Trump's military policy (except torture). I'm against calling Presidents and military leaders "killers" for going to war when you don't think it was advisable. Putin and ISIS are different than George W. Bush--and Donald Trump. At least I hope so. I still agree with Reagan that we are a shining city on a hill and believe that the Declaration of Independence is one of the most beautiful and true political documents ever written.

"all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

MAX Redline said...

I think we agree, TD - torture is not to be condoned. Winning by overpowering the enemy is essential. But first, as The Art Of War observes, one must first know the enemy.

I didn't object to going into Afghanistan to take out the training camps, but I objected mightily to moving into Iraq (again!) at the same time. Bush behaved stupidly in that regard, setting us up for unwinnable wars in both countries.

Barry exacerbated things and extended them to other countries.

Ferret seems to be following the same trail.

T. D. said...

I'm always glad to be on the same page with you, Max!